![\"Civil](\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/therealnews.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/10\/GettyImages-1730037833-scaled.jpg?fit=1200%2C800&ssl=1\")
<\/figure>\n\n\n\nCivil defense teams and residents launch a search and rescue operation around the buildings that were destroyed after Israel’s attacks on the Gaza Strip on its eleventh day in Khan Yunis, Gaza on October 17, 2023. Photo by Mustafa Hassona\/Anadolu via Getty Images<\/p>\n\n\n\n In this urgent installment of \u201cNot in Our Name,\u201d an ongoing series on The Marc Steiner Show<\/em> bringing together Jewish voices around the world speaking out against the Israeli Occupation, we go to the heart of the war that\u2019s taking place in Israel and Palestine<\/a>. As Israel prepares to invade and flatten Gaza in retaliation for the Hamas-led attacks on Israeli kibbutzim and towns by the Gaza border on Oct. 7, the possibility of peace and an end to the Occupation seems farther away than ever. In this panel discussion, Marc Steiner discusses the world-changing events of the past week and the potential futures for Israel and Palestine with: Nir Avishai Cohen<\/a>, a major in the reserves of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and author of the book Love Israel, Support Palestine<\/em><\/a>; Joshua Saltzman, who served as an IDF combat medic in the Lebanon War; and Meron Rapoport<\/a>, award-winning Israeli journalist, editor at Local Call<\/em>, and the former head of the News Department in Haaretz<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Studio Production: David Hebden, Cameron Granadino Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Welcome to The Marc Steiner Show<\/em> here at The Real News and to another edition of Not in Our Name<\/em>. We are going to the heart of the war that\u2019s taking place in Israel and Palestine. This will be a part of a series of conversations we\u2019re having from Israel, the occupied territories, Gaza. And Gaza\u2019s very difficult to get through to, as we talked about before, but we\u2019re going to bring that to you too as soon as we can.<\/p>\n\n\n\n We now have a conversation with three men, all of whom have served in the Israeli military, two of whom live in Israel, and the other\u2019s here in the United States. They\u2019ve all been peace activists, people fighting for dialogue and a future between Palestinians and Israelis. Nir Avishai Cohen from the Moshav Almagor in Israel, was a Major in the IDF, which is the Israeli army. He\u2019s a political activist, human rights activist, was spokesman for Breaking The Silence, and he wrote a book called Love Israel Support Palestine: An Israeli Story<\/em>.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Joining us here from the United States is an old friend of mine, Josh Salzman, who served as a combat medic in the Israeli army in the war with Lebanon. He is an ordained rabbi and has been an activist for peace for a long time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And we will be joined shortly by Meron Rapoport. Meron is an award-winning investigative journalist, over 30 years in Israeli media. He won the Napoli International Prize for Journalism, and is a longtime activist and one of the founders of the Land for All Movement.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Gentlemen, welcome. Good to have you all with us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nir Avishai Cohen: <\/strong>Hi. Good to be here again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Yeah, it\u2019s great to have you back. It\u2019s great to have you back. So let me just start with where we find ourselves at this moment, in some ways unexpected, but Avishai, I may begin with you. Unexpected, but it seems that this is a profound moment that could really create a significant change in what happens in the future.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nir Avishai Cohen: <\/strong>Yes, I agree with you. I think that the Middle East in general, and specifically Israel, will not be the same after this terrible war. Definitely after what\u2019s happening, the nightmare of last Saturday.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>And Meron, good to see you. Good to have you with us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Join thousands of others who rely on our journalism to navigate complex issues, uncover hidden truths, and challenge the status quo with our free newsletter, delivered straight to your inbox twice a week<\/strong>:<\/p>\n\n\n\n And the article you wrote really struck me a lot. One of the things you said at the end of the article about all the pain that was caused in this war that we\u2019ll get to in a moment. But you also thought it had left an opportunity for something to happen in the future, even though it seems like the crisis is almost impossible to overcome at the moment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nir Avishai Cohen: <\/strong>Yeah. So I look back to the history and I look at the Yom Kippur War in \u201973, which was, until last Saturday, the biggest crisis Israel ever had. A few years after this terrible crisis, the peace agreement with the Egyptians came. And I don\u2019t know if someone during the war in \u201973 thought that the peace with the Egyptians would come so early. So if I try to find a little spot of light in these really dark days, it\u2019s maybe try to hope that history will happen again these days.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Meron?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Meron Rapoport: <\/strong>Yes. Good evening. Yes, at this moment, treaty seems very far, I must say. And there are motives for revenge [more] than anything else. That\u2019s what dominates the atmosphere in the Israeli public at the moment. Revenge to level down Gaza, wipe out Hamas. This is the slogan. And even yesterday I heard on Channel 12, retired General [inaudible] talking about the goal of the Israeli operation in Gaza is a new [foreign language]. That\u2019s how he phrased it in a very plain way, as if it\u2019s a legitimate war objective. And nobody even commented on this when he was talking about it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So the atmosphere could lead to very dangerous places. And the blockade on Gaza and the fact that Gaza was this evening is cut off from electricity. There is practically no running water, food may be in shortage in just a few days. And military leaders and political leaders are talking openly about driving out hundreds of thousands of Palestinians into Sinai, pushing them out of Gaza. So we are here in a very dangerous mood in Israel, very dangerous mood.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But what I said in the article is that, paradoxically, what happened here, it came in the middle of the negotiation. We don\u2019t know exactly where they were with normalization with Saudi Arabia. And the whole idea of the Netanyahu effort, first the Abraham Accord with the Emirates and Bahrain and Morocco and Sudan and now with Saudi Arabia is that the Palestinians are not an issue. We could bypass [foreign language]. He said it in his own words, we could bypass [foreign language] and have peace for Israel and prosperity.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And we don\u2019t\u2026 The conflict with Palestine does not really matter. What happened Saturday morning in a very brutal, the most cruel, the most\u2026 Nobody can imagine such cruelty. But what happened is that certainly Palestinians, but they knew it all the time, but Israelis do understand that the conflict is with the Palestinians. It\u2019s not with the Emirates. It\u2019s not with the Saudis. It\u2019s with the Palestinians, and it is with the Palestinians that we have to deal with.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Now, the first instinct now is revenge. And I would even say, okay, if the conflict is with the Palestinians, let\u2019s drive them out of here. I even hear people from the Gaza area, from the people living around Gaza from the kibbutzim that was so badly hit saying, we will no longer have neighbors anymore. It\u2019s either us or them. So one conclusion is, okay, if the conflict is with Palestinians, let\u2019s just drive them away. And if not, maybe worse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But as I think, this is really not possible for many, many, many reasons. I think that, in a way, if you recognize that your conflict is with Palestinians and that the status quo is no [longer] possible, what was in the last 50 years, and going to Saudi Arabia will not help you, and you can\u2019t drive them away, then the only option is to have some kind of political arrangement with them. So this is why I have a glimmer of hope. They are very bad days. The atmosphere is not at all an atmosphere of peace. But eventually realizing that we are stuck here with the Palestinians and all these dreams of driving away in the Arabian desert on trains headed to India is really a fantasy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Josh?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Josh Salzman: <\/strong>Yeah, I just want to set the context a little, Marc. Without taking sides, of course, but we have to realize that we\u2019ve had 75 years of systematic oppression of the Palestinian people. And that most recently we see the displacement of many, many, many families, Palestinian families in the West Bank. And even though many Gazans have been allowed to work in Israel, one could almost say de facto that Netanyahu was allowing that, that actually supporting Hamas \u2013 his interest was not in peace. His interest is in the destruction of the Palestinian people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Now, does that justify the brutality of Hamas? No. But we can say that something was going to happen, whether it would be an intifada in the West Bank or some other kind of violent reaction. You cannot oppress a people for so long and not expect them to react. This is the history of humankind. Every time you oppress a people, they will rebel. So in a way it was a profound surprise. And in a way, there\u2019s <\/strong>nothing new that\u2019s happening today that hasn\u2019t happened in the past, in the sense of a people responding to the ongoing oppression and ultimate aim of genocide of that people. Again, that does not justify in any way the reaction of Hamas and the brutal violence, but it does set a tone. <\/p>\n\n\n\n I agree with Marone for what we might see when all of this terrible fighting is over. That maybe the world will say, maybe the Western countries will say, maybe some of the Muslim countries will say, okay, now we have to figure out how do we find peace? Perhaps after this then the government will fall. There\u2019s going to be an accounting. So maybe this is Netanyahu\u2019s last stand, as it were. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I also have shared that hope that after the fighting and the destruction and the devastation is over, maybe it will put us on a new path. That is my hope.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>So let me take what you all have said and just talk about where this might lead and what might happen here. You have the most right-wing government in the history of Israel. The people have called what Hamas did on the border of Gaza a war crime, and it can count as a war crime, but so are things that the Israeli army and Israel has done to Palestinians can also be counted as a war crime.<\/p>\n\n\n\n A lot of the people, as I was joking with a friend \u2013 Not joking, but talking with a friend of mine, an Israeli writer who is living in Germany now. He and I talked on the phone last night, and he was saying that most of the people who oppose this right-wing government live in Germany, or they live in France, or they live in Britain, or they live in the United States. They\u2019re not in Israel anymore. They\u2019re gone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So I really am curious what you all think is the future given what we\u2019ve just seen. The violence that we just saw on the border of Gaza was incredible. It was unbelievably horrible.There are still like 300 people, I think, held by Hamas who were taken as prisoners. The destruction of Gaza now is just immense. The entire place is being flattened and about to be invaded, if it hasn\u2019t already been invaded when we have this conversation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So where does that take the future of Israel and Palestine? What do you think happens next? I\u2019ll start with Avishai, because we haven\u2019t heard from you in a few minutes. Let me let you begin.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nir Avishai Cohen: <\/strong>Speaking about the far future, I think we must first think about the near future, meaning about tomorrow, about next week. As we see it, this war will last for a while, for at least a few weeks, maybe a few months. During that time, I think we have a serious duty to first make sure about what\u2019s going on in the West Bank, because already some of the settlers started to take advantage of the fact that the media and all of the focus goes to the Gaza Strip. We see a rise in violent events against Palestinians.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think we, the Israelis and also the rest of the world, should not forget about the millions of Palestinians that are living these days in the West Bank. We think that also we must remember that about 2 million Palestinians are living right now in the Gaza Strip. I really do think that we will have no choice but to fight Hamas. We must remember that most of the Palestinians in Gaza Strip, they\u2019re innocent. So I think we must state, day after day, we must remember our responsibility for those Palestinians.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Regarding the far future, as I see it, Israel, we need to understand that there\u2019s no\u2026 I really do think that more and more people will understand after this terrible war that we have no choice but to find a solution with the Palestinians. Either one-state solution, or two-state solution, or three-state solution, we must find a solution, which it\u2019s not the current one. I think this huge crisis will lead to this understanding in levels of the society that didn\u2019t have this understanding before.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>So Israel has had \u2013 Meron, I\u2019ll let you jump in here. Israel has had governments that are liberal and left, and some very conservative right-wing governments with Herut and other parties in power, and now you have a really far-right government in Israel. Some would even call it a neo-fascist government in Israel. So picking up what Avishai said, said how does that happen in this atmosphere? How could this possibly lead to something different that Avishai was talking about?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Meron Rapoport: <\/strong>I think in the short term, we have first to the political side. It\u2019s the most unpopular government maybe, at least in the last decades. It is extremely unpopular. Not only in the polls, where it has lost, according to the polls something like between 10 to 14 seats out of the Parliament of 120 seats. So it\u2019s a considerable amount it lost in the polls.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But it\u2019s not only the polls. Just today on the TV and on social media, two ministers, the environment minister and the economy minister, visited hospitals, went on a visit to hospitals. They were chased out. They were driven out by ordinary people that, at least how they look like, they look like classical right-wing voters. They were shouted at and humiliated. \u201cYou destroyed Israel.\u201d So it\u2019s an extremely unpopular government.<\/p>\n\n\n\n The failure of what happened this Saturday morning\u2026 I don\u2019t see a government surviving with such a failure. Intelligence, military, infrastructure, everything collapses as if there\u2019s no government, as if there\u2019s no state. So I think Netanyahu just today added guards into his government, and that\u2019s not a sign of force, but a sign of weakness.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think this government and Netanyahu in general, and Israel in general, is facing a really complicated situation because, yes, it can bombard Gaza without any problem. Its airplanes can come and go, and they could level down whole neighborhoods in Gaza. That\u2019s no problem. And they could kill 4,000, 5,000 Palestinians, 6,000 Palestinians. This is no problem. The question is, if the goal is to topple down Hamas, then they have to go in. They have to go in to take Gaza. There\u2019s no other way. You cannot topple Hamas without going into Gaza.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Now here, two very, very complicated questions. The first one is, is the Israeli army capable of doing it? It has not shown a very high level of fighting against Hamas in this beginning of the week. So it\u2019s not very clear if they can do it. And what price? And if the Western world will allow it and our countries will allow it, whether Hezbollah will go into action. So there are many questions here militarily wise.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But the most complicated is the day after. Because if you take Gaza, there\u2019s two options. Either Israel controls Gaza \u2013 This is impossible. It\u2019ll not happen. Israel will not run the lives of 2 million Palestinians. It will not do it. That\u2019s for 100% sure. It\u2019ll have to give it to someone else. The only one to give it to is Abu Musa and the PLO. And giving it to the PLO means reviving the two-state solution. This is that thing that Netanyahu strived to prevent in the last 15 years. This is the core of his policy, to prevent the two-state solution by using Hamas and the division between Gaza. So that he will give a present to Abu Mazen of taking over Gaza and reviving the two-state solution. It is as if he\u2019s wiping out his whole heritage. Everything he did in these last 15 years will be destroyed by himself.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So here is a really complicated question. And I think what Netanyahu wants is just revenge, bombing, destroying neighborhoods, killing 5,000 Palestinians, then saying, we want to maybe kill one of the leaders of Hamas, Mohammed Deif or Sinwar, one of the leaders of Hamas and declare victory, but Hamas will stay. This will not be accepted by Israelis if this will be the result of this war. And even if Netanyahu will say, we won, we killed 5,000 Palestinians, we killed 10,000 Palestinians. But Hamas stays in power after what they\u2019ve done? He will be toppled down the next day. So it\u2019s a very complicated situation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>It is. That\u2019s what I\u2019m trying to get through. I\u2019m glad we were getting\u2026 Go ahead, Josh. You wanted to say something. I can see.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Josh Salzman: <\/strong>First of all, let\u2019s be clear, we\u2019re talking tens of thousands of Palestinians who are going to die, and many, many Israelis. This is 5,000 Gazans is, I think, a gross underestimation of what this is going to look like. But, just like on the intelligence level we had a profound failure of imagination, I think we have the same failure of imagination on the political level, and the Palestinian Authority and Abu Mazen, that is, in fact, a thing of the past. And this is where I see Israel, the Western countries, perhaps diaspora Jewry, perhaps diaspora Palestinians. We\u2019re going to have to totally reimagine what is possible. And that may mean some type of new configuration. Because we can go the way of Iran and the way of war, or we can find a new way.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And to be honest with you, I can\u2019t, at this point, imagine what that is, but that is the road where we\u2019re going to have to open up for ourselves the challenge of what it means to dream the impossible and how that will look. I don\u2019t know, Marc, I can\u2019t say what that is going to look like, but it has to be some new configuration. It has to be a willingness on the part of Muslim nations, on the part of Western nations, a new sense of how we are going to make it safe for Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace, whatever that means. And I don\u2019t really know at this point, to be honest with you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Right, whatever that means. One state, two states, how many states. And I think that there\u2019s a question here about how more difficult it could become. Because if you look at the attitudes in the polling of Jews across the globe, a lot of Jews are getting tired of Israel, tired of supporting Israel, especially younger people. There\u2019s not a younger person in my family who isn\u2019t done. They\u2019re all done. Even the ones who lived there, even the ones who came from there, even the ones who used to be in love with Israel, they\u2019re done. So I think that this latest war could be what leads to the destruction of Israel itself. It won\u2019t be overnight, it won\u2019t be easy, but it could really be the beginning of the end.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And the question is, how is that prevented? How is something new built? And I think that when you look at the statements that Ben-Gvir has made, the others have made, Smotrich, have made about Palestinians literally saying, just wipe them out. Tear down everything they have, push them out. It\u2019s like, somehow Jews, we have become the neo-fascists that tried to kill us before. So to me, that\u2019s part of the complexity that we have to address and [inaudible] happen. And Josh, I\u2019ll let you start, and Avishai jump in, and Meron jump in, please.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Josh Salzman: <\/strong>Yeah, I agree with you. And I think there are, among young people today, there\u2019s profound disillusionment about the state of Israel. But I\u2019m not saying that it\u2019s going to be easy, but I don\u2019t believe that the state of Israel is doomed, God forbid. But I do think that there has to be a new vision, and hopefully, that we have to identify new leaders who are willing to do what people have not been willing to do up till now. And that includes reaching out to young people in Israel, to our young people, and trying to\u2026 I don\u2019t know, I\u2019m frankly at a loss for words.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think Israel, at this point, is in a lot of trouble. I don\u2019t know how long the world will tolerate what\u2019s about to happen in Gaza. There\u2019s going to be tremendous pressure. And at some point, when the fog of war clears, there\u2019s going to have to emerge a new way of approaching this. And again, I can\u2019t exactly say what it is, but I don\u2019t believe that that means\u2026 It\u2019s not the end of the state of Israel. It\u2019s just we have to really reevaluate what we want, and it\u2019s very complex. I wish I had a better answer for you, but I don\u2019t think it\u2019s\u2026 Yeah. I\u2019d like to hear what the other guests have to say.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Yeah, let me go to Avishai, bring him back in. Because in part, I remember your book, Avishai, this is a piece of what you\u2019ve been writing about as well.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nir Avishai Cohen: <\/strong>Yeah. I must say that I agree with Josh. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s the end of Israel, but I think we\u2019ll need to find out a new division here between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. I mean, we, the Palestinians and the Israelis will need to find a solution, how to live here without having war or these attacks every few months, few years.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And I think there is an opportunity that after this war, it might happen, maybe with the help of the world, maybe with the help of the United States. Also, we need to understand that we need to be more involved with who is trying to make peace here.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And as it was before, I think both nations, the Palestinians and Israelis, will maybe elect or maybe have new leaders. Because those leaders, both sides, didn\u2019t lead us to a good place. So I don\u2019t know just what will be the solution, but I see the opportunity of us having some kind of solution.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Go ahead, Maron. I see that critical look. What are you about to say?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Meron Rapoport: <\/strong>Again, if Israel insists on continuing to be an occupying power, and that occupation is woven into its politics and to its raison d\u2019etre, then yes, maybe Israel, I don\u2019t know, the word \u201cdoomed\u201d is big, but it will have very big difficulties, I think. If you add what happened, what we saw from Hamas, an organization, they were armed with kalashnikovs, basically [Kaimans] and kalashnikovs. No armed vehicles, nothing. No tanks of course, no cannons, no planes, nothing, just kalashnikovs. And they took over a territory of 100 square miles, something like this, this is the calculation, in one day.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Hezbollah is better. Who knows what will happen in Jordan in the end. And Iran, of course. And Syria one day will\u2026 So if Israel insists that the only way it knows to deal with the Palestinians is by force, then it might have really difficult times in keeping itself together. <\/strong>But at the same time, I think people have this will of life. People want to live in peace. It\u2019s something basic, even if they don\u2019t see it now.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I am one of the leaders of a movement that calls for a kind of confederation union between Israel and Palestine, with open borders and freedom of movement. Two states, yes, because every people needs the right to self-determination. I don\u2019t see one state, especially after what happened this week. To see these people live together as if there\u2019s one ethos. It\u2019s very hard to see a one-state solution in this moment. So we talk about a two-state solution, but with open borders, Jerusalem as a shared city.<\/p>\n\n\n\n I think what happened, if I come back to what I said in the beginning, the fact that the Abraham Accord is out and Saudi Arabia is out as a way, as a tool to solve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I\u2019m talking. Maybe there will be peace with Saudi Arabia, but it will not really affect.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So the realization is that we are two people on this land seeing the whole of it as their homeland. These murderers from Hamas across the border, one of the [pieces of] evidence I saw, they first of all kissed the land after they crossed the border and said, this is the land of our fathers and grandfathers. They are refugees from these very parts. 75% of the Gazans are refugees, and most of them come from villages exactly there. So it is in the imagination of these two people, this is one homeland between the river and the sea.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And to a certain sense, we live in this space together. And the economies in Gaza, now attacked by Israel, where people came with such hatred, people pay in shekels. When they buy falafel, they pay in Israeli shekel. So there\u2019s a shekel zone that includes the Gaza Strip with Hamas in it. So the realities that make us share space are very strong, and I think once the realization will come, that these are two people, that nobody\u2019s going anywhere. 7 million people. 7 million Jews, 7 million Palestinian, nobody\u2019s going away.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So, if we\u2019ll have a place of our own in our own state, but at the same time, sharing the land economically, demographically, et cetera, I think this is a very\u2026 It sounds maybe now a little bit like a fantasy. I think it\u2019s the most realistic one, the closest to reality. And maybe. Maybe. I hope so. It\u2019s difficult to see through the clouds of war and hatred and anger and such a will to revenge. Through these clouds maybe you\u2019ll see some glimpse of light that will lead us to the solution that I think is, more or less, the only solution possible. Two states in one land, because this is one land, but two states. I think we will get there. I hope with as [few] people killed as possible, but I think we will get there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Well, that was a beautiful closing thought, but let me let Avishai and Josh also have one as we finish up. Go ahead, Avishai.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nir Avishai Cohen: <\/strong>I just wanted to say that four years ago I met Meron, and he spoke with me about this solution. And back then I thought it\u2019s a fantasy, and it\u2019s imaginary, and it\u2019ll never happen. I must admit, these days, I think I agree with Meron, what he just said. Again, I think the day after the war will be a possibility to a solution that we never thought could happen. And I hope it will.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>Josh, a quick thought?<\/p>\n\n\n\n Josh Salzman: <\/strong>Yeah, I would just add a couple of things. First of all, let\u2019s keep in mind that half of the population in Gaza are children. They\u2019re under 18. So, that in itself is difficult to imagine.<\/p>\n\n\n\n But I agree also with Meron and Avishai. Let\u2019s just look at the success of the Jewish diaspora and the Palestinian diaspora. Both of those are great examples of very strong economic powers. And it\u2019s exactly what Meron said. On some level, we\u2019re going to have to figure out \u2013 And I\u2019m not saying anything that hasn\u2019t been said before, but we\u2019re going to have to figure out how we can rebuild an infrastructure so that the Palestinians, who have the capability of creating in whatever way they do, ultimately resolving it with the Israelis. Because when it comes down to it, it\u2019s going to have to be between the Israelis and the Palestinians of finding a way for some kind of economic parity, and helping them, and that level of cooperation.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Yeah, I would agree that it\u2019s some kind of open, two-state solution. But yeah, it\u2019s going to require a very radical and different way of thinking about what can be for these people who are now suffering so greatly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>And we\u2019ll see how things play out over the next weeks with this. First, I just want to say that in Israel-Palestine at the moment, Avishai Cohen and Meron Rapoport, besides thanking you for being with us today, is having the courage to stand up to say what you say in the face of the very right-wing power that exists in Israel, and being a different voice. And those are really important, and societies need those voices. I want to thank you both for that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Meron Rapoport: <\/strong>I think there is a community near, and we\u2019re not alone. We\u2019re not alone. It\u2019s not a huge community, it\u2019s true, but we\u2019re not alone. We\u2019re not alone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>No, I know you\u2019re not alone. I know you\u2019re not alone.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And Josh Salzman is a dear friend, an old friend of mine. It\u2019s good to have you here as well and standing up for the voices of peace that you\u2019ve done with your work. I want to thank the three of you again for joining us today and look forward to more conversations, and I\u2019ll be staying in close touch.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Josh Salzman: <\/strong>Great to be here, Marc. Thank you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Meron Rapoport: <\/strong>Thank you very much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Nir Avishai Cohen: <\/strong>Thank you. Bye-bye.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Marc Steiner: <\/strong>And thank you all for joining us today. And I want to thank our guests once again. Josh Salzman, Nir Avishai Cohen, and Meron Rappaport. And we will be linking to their works so you can see more about what they\u2019re saying.<\/p>\n\n\n\n And of course, thanks to Cameron Granadino for running the show, David Hebden for the editing and getting us on the air, and then tireless work of Kayla Rivara behind the scenes, and everyone here at The Real News for making this show possible.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Now, please, let me know what you think about what you heard today, what you\u2019d like us to cover. Just write to me at mss@therealnews.com and I\u2019ll get right back to you. And we\u2019ll continue our coverage of Israel and Palestine, so let us know what you think about that, people you\u2019d like us to talk to, issues you\u2019d like us to raise, what you think about this coverage.<\/p>\n\n\n\n So, finally, for Cameron Granadino, Kayla Rivara, David Hebden and the crew here at The Real News, I\u2019m Marc Steiner. Stay involved, keep listening, and take care.<\/p>\n\n\n\n Even more ways to give<\/a>…<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n Host, The Marc Steiner Show<\/strong> As Israel prepares to flatten Gaza, the possibility of peace and an end to the Occupation seems farther away than ever. We speak with a panel of Israelis about the events of the past week and the potential futures for Israel and Palestine. BY\u00a0MARC STEINER OCTOBER 17, 2023 (therealnews.com) Civil… Continue reading → <\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[1242],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29273"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=29273"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29273\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":29274,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29273\/revisions\/29274"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=29273"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=29273"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=29273"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}\n
Post-Production: David Hebden<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n\n\n\n
\n\n\n\nTRANSCRIPT<\/h2>\n\n\n\n
MORE STORIES…<\/em><\/a><\/h3>\n\n\n\n
Report from Palestine: \u2018Things are going to get a lot worse\u2019 in this war<\/a><\/a><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
The Israeli soldiers exposing the IDF\u2019s war crimes<\/a><\/a><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
\u2018I want the death to stop, and it won\u2019t so long as the Occupation continues\u2019<\/a><\/a><\/h4>\n\n\n\n
MARC STEINERHOST, THE MARC STEINER SHOW<\/a><\/h2>\n\n\n\n
Marc Steiner is the host of “The Marc Steiner Show” on TRNN. He is a Peabody Award-winning journalist who has spent his life working on social justice issues. He walked his first picket line at age 13, and at age 16 became the youngest person in Maryland arrested<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"