Zelensky: \u2018We Are Trying to Find Some Way Not to Retreat\u2019<\/h1>David Ignatius<\/span>\/<\/span>The Washington Post<\/span><\/span><\/header>![\"Zelensky:](\"https:\/\/www.rsn.org\/images\/001\/048273-zelenskyy-041922.jpg\")
Ukainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. (photo: Ronaldo Schemidt\/Getty Images)<\/span><\/span>- <\/span><\/a><\/li>
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- <\/span><\/a><\/li><\/ul><\/div>30 march 24<\/span>
P<\/dropcap>resident Volodymyr Zelensky delivered a stark message to Congress in an interview on Thursday as Russian missiles were pounding southern Ukraine: Give us the weapons to stop the Russian attacks, or Ukraine will escalate its counterattacks on Russia\u2019s airfields, energy facilities and other strategic targets.<\/p>Zelensky spoke in a sandbagged, heavily guarded presidential compound that seemed nearly empty of its old civilian workforce after more than two years of war. The security was so tight, I had to surrender my plastic felt-tip pens. But Zelensky appeared as animated and pugnacious as when he made his defiant stand in the courtyard when the war began.<\/p>
Zelensky, the actor who became a wartime president, now totally inhabits this role. He wore his habitual dress of a Ukrainian military sweatshirt and combat pants. He looked less haggard here on his home ground than he had about a month ago\u00a0at a security conference in Munich<\/a>. He seems to relish being the symbol of a nation at war.<\/p>The congressional delay in approving a $60 billion military aid package has been costly for Ukraine, Zelensky said. The military has been unable to plan future operations while legislators squabbled for nearly six months. He warned that hard-pressed Ukrainian forces might have to retreat to secure their front lines and conserve ammunition.<\/p>
\u201cIf there is no U.S. support, it means that we have no air defense, no Patriot missiles, no jammers for electronic warfare, no 155-milimeter artillery rounds,\u201d he said. \u201cIt means we will go back, retreat, step by step, in small steps.\u201d<\/p>
To describe the military situation, Zelensky took a sheet of paper and drew a simple diagram of the combat zone. \u201cIf you need 8,000 rounds a day to defend the front line, but you only have, for example, 2,000 rounds, you have to do less,\u201d he explained. \u201cHow? Of course, to go back. Make the front line shorter. If it breaks, the Russians could go to the big cities.\u201d<\/p>
\u201cWe are trying to find some way not to retreat,\u201d Zelensky continued. After the Russian\u00a0capture of Avdiivka<\/a>\u00a0in February, he said, \u201cwe have stabilized the situation because of smart steps by our military.\u201d If the front remains stable, he said, Ukraine can arm and train new brigades in the rear to conduct a new counteroffensive later this year.<\/p>Zelensky summed up the zero-sum reality of this conflict: \u201cIf you are not taking steps forward to prepare another counteroffensive, Russia will take them. That\u2019s what we learned in this war: If you don\u2019t do it, Russia will do it.\u201d<\/p>
When I asked whether Ukraine was running short of interceptors and other air-defense weapons to protect its cities and infrastructure, he responded: \u201cThat\u2019s true. I don\u2019t want Russia to know what number of air-defense missiles we have, but basically, you\u2019re right. Without the support of Congress, we will have a big deficit of missiles. This is the problem. We are increasing our own air-defense systems, but it is not enough.\u201d<\/p>
As Russian drones, missiles and precision bombs break through Ukrainian defenses to\u00a0attack energy facilities and other essential infrastructure<\/a>, Zelensky feels he has no choice but to punch back across the border \u2014 in the hope of establishing deterrence. An example is Ukraine\u2019s\u00a0drone strikes against Russian refineries<\/a>\u00a0over the past month. I asked Zelensky if U.S. officials had warned against such attacks on energy facilities inside Russia, as has been rumored in Washington.<\/p>\u201cThe reaction of the U.S. was not positive on this,\u201d he confirmed, but Washington couldn\u2019t limit Ukraine\u2019s deployment of its own home-built weapons. \u201cWe used\u00a0our<\/i>\u00a0drones. Nobody can say to us you can\u2019t.\u201d<\/p>
Zelensky argued that he could check Russian attacks on Ukraine\u2019s energy grid only by making Russia pay a similar price. \u201cIf there is no air defense to protect our energy system, and Russians attack it, my question is: Why can\u2019t we answer them? Their society has to learn to live without petrol, without diesel, without electricity. \u2026 It\u2019s fair.\u201d<\/p>
\u201cWhen Russia will stop these steps, we will stop,\u201d he said.<\/p>
What Zelensky wants urgently are long-range\u00a0ATACM-300 missiles<\/a>, which he said could strike targets in Russian-occupied Crimea, especially the airfields from which Russia launches planes with precision-guided missiles that are doing heavy damage. These missiles recently\u00a0hit Odessa<\/a>\u00a0and several other targets.<\/p>\u201cWhen Russia has missiles and we don\u2019t, they attack by missiles: Everything \u2014 gas, energy, schools, factories, civilian buildings,\u201d Zelensky said.<\/p>
\u201cATACM-300s, that is the answer,\u201d he continued. He said he wanted to use the longer-range missiles not to attack Russian territory but those airfields in Crimea. \u201cWhen Russia knows we can destroy these jets, they will not attack from Crimea. It\u2019s like with the sea fleet. We pushed them from our territorial waters. Now we will push them from the airports in Crimea.\u201d<\/p>
Zelensky recalled that in Munich in February, he took out a map of the targets the ATACMS could hit. \u201cI showed them military platforms like airports, air-defense systems and other sites,\u201d he said. When I asked whether the ATACMS are on the way, as is rumored in Washington, he laughed and said: \u201cI can\u2019t share with you this information. Sorry.\u201d He said that the missiles \u201care not in Ukraine\u201d now.<\/p>
Zelensky touted his program for a domestically produced \u201carmy of drones, including some that can reach 1,000 kilometers or more into Russia.\u201d But he cautioned that \u201cdrones are not enough for winning the war. \u2026 We could use naval drones to push their fleet out of our territorial waters and the entire western part of the Black Sea, yes. But it\u2019s not enough to win. These are drones, not missiles.\u201d<\/p>
I asked Zelensky whether he thought\u00a0President Biden<\/a>\u00a0was too cautious in supplying weapons, as hawkish critics sometimes charge. \u201cI think he\u2019s cautious about nuclear attack from Russia,\u201d Zelensky answered. His own view is that Vladimir Putin wouldn\u2019t risk a nuclear exchange, but he conceded that the Russian leader is unpredictable: \u201cHe\u2019s crazy. There is nobody in the world who can tell you 100 percent what he will do. That\u2019s why Biden is cautious.\u201d<\/p>The lesson of war for Zelensky, after two years of brutal fighting that has killed many of the best officers and soldiers in the Ukrainian army, is that Putin should have been stopped sooner.<\/p>
President Barack Obama \u201cwas not strong against him\u201d when Putin seized Crimea in 2014, Zelensky said. \u201cEurope wanted to have security on the border and big trade with Russia. That opened the way to war with Ukraine.\u201d<\/p>
\u201cHe captured Crimea, and there was no reaction at all. Nobody pushed him back. Nobody stopped him.\u201d When I asked whether he would have allowed Biden to send U.S. troops into Ukraine to deter the February 2022 invasion, he said simply: \u201cYes.\u201d In hindsight, that show of force might have been the only way this terrible conflict could have been averted.<\/p>
Zelensky offered a chilling characterization of his adversary. \u201cPutin is cunning, but he\u2019s not smart,\u201d he said. \u201cWhen you fight with a smart person, it\u2019s a fight with rules. But when you fight with a cunning person, it\u2019s always dangerous.\u201d<\/p>
Looking ahead, Zelensky said Ukraine\u2019s options depend on what Congress decides. Until Ukraine knows it has continuing U.S. support, \u201cwe will stay where we are now in the East.\u201d He said Ukraine might conduct limited offensive operations, but \u201cto push them out, we need more weapons.\u201d<\/p>
\u201cWe lost half a year\u201d while Congress bickered, he said. \u201cWe can\u2019t waste time anymore. Ukraine can\u2019t be a political issue between the parties.\u201d He said critics of aid for Ukraine didn\u2019t understand the stakes in the war. \u201cIf Ukraine falls, Putin will divide the world\u201d into Russia\u2019s friends and enemies, he said.<\/p>
Zelensky has been the X-factor in this war, mobilizing his country and much of the world to resist Russian aggression. I wish members of Congress who balk at aiding Ukraine could have listened to the Ukrainian leader talk about the price that Ukraine has paid for its defiance \u2014 and the risks ahead for the United States if it doesn\u2019t stand with its friends.<\/p><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Zelensky: \u2018We Are Trying to Find Some Way Not to Retreat\u2019 David Ignatius\/The Washington Post Ukainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. (photo: Ronaldo Schemidt\/Getty Images) go to original\u00a0\/\u00a0print version\u00a0\/\u00a0subscribe\u00a0\/\u00a0donate 30 march 24 President Volodymyr Zelensky delivered a stark message to Congress in an interview on Thursday as Russian missiles were pounding southern… Continue reading → <\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32574"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=32574"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32574\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":32575,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32574\/revisions\/32575"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=32574"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=32574"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=32574"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
Zelensky spoke in a sandbagged, heavily guarded presidential compound that seemed nearly empty of its old civilian workforce after more than two years of war. The security was so tight, I had to surrender my plastic felt-tip pens. But Zelensky appeared as animated and pugnacious as when he made his defiant stand in the courtyard when the war began.<\/p> Zelensky, the actor who became a wartime president, now totally inhabits this role. He wore his habitual dress of a Ukrainian military sweatshirt and combat pants. He looked less haggard here on his home ground than he had about a month ago\u00a0at a security conference in Munich<\/a>. He seems to relish being the symbol of a nation at war.<\/p> The congressional delay in approving a $60 billion military aid package has been costly for Ukraine, Zelensky said. The military has been unable to plan future operations while legislators squabbled for nearly six months. He warned that hard-pressed Ukrainian forces might have to retreat to secure their front lines and conserve ammunition.<\/p> \u201cIf there is no U.S. support, it means that we have no air defense, no Patriot missiles, no jammers for electronic warfare, no 155-milimeter artillery rounds,\u201d he said. \u201cIt means we will go back, retreat, step by step, in small steps.\u201d<\/p> To describe the military situation, Zelensky took a sheet of paper and drew a simple diagram of the combat zone. \u201cIf you need 8,000 rounds a day to defend the front line, but you only have, for example, 2,000 rounds, you have to do less,\u201d he explained. \u201cHow? Of course, to go back. Make the front line shorter. If it breaks, the Russians could go to the big cities.\u201d<\/p> \u201cWe are trying to find some way not to retreat,\u201d Zelensky continued. After the Russian\u00a0capture of Avdiivka<\/a>\u00a0in February, he said, \u201cwe have stabilized the situation because of smart steps by our military.\u201d If the front remains stable, he said, Ukraine can arm and train new brigades in the rear to conduct a new counteroffensive later this year.<\/p> Zelensky summed up the zero-sum reality of this conflict: \u201cIf you are not taking steps forward to prepare another counteroffensive, Russia will take them. That\u2019s what we learned in this war: If you don\u2019t do it, Russia will do it.\u201d<\/p> When I asked whether Ukraine was running short of interceptors and other air-defense weapons to protect its cities and infrastructure, he responded: \u201cThat\u2019s true. I don\u2019t want Russia to know what number of air-defense missiles we have, but basically, you\u2019re right. Without the support of Congress, we will have a big deficit of missiles. This is the problem. We are increasing our own air-defense systems, but it is not enough.\u201d<\/p> As Russian drones, missiles and precision bombs break through Ukrainian defenses to\u00a0attack energy facilities and other essential infrastructure<\/a>, Zelensky feels he has no choice but to punch back across the border \u2014 in the hope of establishing deterrence. An example is Ukraine\u2019s\u00a0drone strikes against Russian refineries<\/a>\u00a0over the past month. I asked Zelensky if U.S. officials had warned against such attacks on energy facilities inside Russia, as has been rumored in Washington.<\/p> \u201cThe reaction of the U.S. was not positive on this,\u201d he confirmed, but Washington couldn\u2019t limit Ukraine\u2019s deployment of its own home-built weapons. \u201cWe used\u00a0our<\/i>\u00a0drones. Nobody can say to us you can\u2019t.\u201d<\/p> Zelensky argued that he could check Russian attacks on Ukraine\u2019s energy grid only by making Russia pay a similar price. \u201cIf there is no air defense to protect our energy system, and Russians attack it, my question is: Why can\u2019t we answer them? Their society has to learn to live without petrol, without diesel, without electricity. \u2026 It\u2019s fair.\u201d<\/p> \u201cWhen Russia will stop these steps, we will stop,\u201d he said.<\/p> What Zelensky wants urgently are long-range\u00a0ATACM-300 missiles<\/a>, which he said could strike targets in Russian-occupied Crimea, especially the airfields from which Russia launches planes with precision-guided missiles that are doing heavy damage. These missiles recently\u00a0hit Odessa<\/a>\u00a0and several other targets.<\/p> \u201cWhen Russia has missiles and we don\u2019t, they attack by missiles: Everything \u2014 gas, energy, schools, factories, civilian buildings,\u201d Zelensky said.<\/p> \u201cATACM-300s, that is the answer,\u201d he continued. He said he wanted to use the longer-range missiles not to attack Russian territory but those airfields in Crimea. \u201cWhen Russia knows we can destroy these jets, they will not attack from Crimea. It\u2019s like with the sea fleet. We pushed them from our territorial waters. Now we will push them from the airports in Crimea.\u201d<\/p> Zelensky recalled that in Munich in February, he took out a map of the targets the ATACMS could hit. \u201cI showed them military platforms like airports, air-defense systems and other sites,\u201d he said. When I asked whether the ATACMS are on the way, as is rumored in Washington, he laughed and said: \u201cI can\u2019t share with you this information. Sorry.\u201d He said that the missiles \u201care not in Ukraine\u201d now.<\/p> Zelensky touted his program for a domestically produced \u201carmy of drones, including some that can reach 1,000 kilometers or more into Russia.\u201d But he cautioned that \u201cdrones are not enough for winning the war. \u2026 We could use naval drones to push their fleet out of our territorial waters and the entire western part of the Black Sea, yes. But it\u2019s not enough to win. These are drones, not missiles.\u201d<\/p> I asked Zelensky whether he thought\u00a0President Biden<\/a>\u00a0was too cautious in supplying weapons, as hawkish critics sometimes charge. \u201cI think he\u2019s cautious about nuclear attack from Russia,\u201d Zelensky answered. His own view is that Vladimir Putin wouldn\u2019t risk a nuclear exchange, but he conceded that the Russian leader is unpredictable: \u201cHe\u2019s crazy. There is nobody in the world who can tell you 100 percent what he will do. That\u2019s why Biden is cautious.\u201d<\/p> The lesson of war for Zelensky, after two years of brutal fighting that has killed many of the best officers and soldiers in the Ukrainian army, is that Putin should have been stopped sooner.<\/p> President Barack Obama \u201cwas not strong against him\u201d when Putin seized Crimea in 2014, Zelensky said. \u201cEurope wanted to have security on the border and big trade with Russia. That opened the way to war with Ukraine.\u201d<\/p> \u201cHe captured Crimea, and there was no reaction at all. Nobody pushed him back. Nobody stopped him.\u201d When I asked whether he would have allowed Biden to send U.S. troops into Ukraine to deter the February 2022 invasion, he said simply: \u201cYes.\u201d In hindsight, that show of force might have been the only way this terrible conflict could have been averted.<\/p> Zelensky offered a chilling characterization of his adversary. \u201cPutin is cunning, but he\u2019s not smart,\u201d he said. \u201cWhen you fight with a smart person, it\u2019s a fight with rules. But when you fight with a cunning person, it\u2019s always dangerous.\u201d<\/p> Looking ahead, Zelensky said Ukraine\u2019s options depend on what Congress decides. Until Ukraine knows it has continuing U.S. support, \u201cwe will stay where we are now in the East.\u201d He said Ukraine might conduct limited offensive operations, but \u201cto push them out, we need more weapons.\u201d<\/p> \u201cWe lost half a year\u201d while Congress bickered, he said. \u201cWe can\u2019t waste time anymore. Ukraine can\u2019t be a political issue between the parties.\u201d He said critics of aid for Ukraine didn\u2019t understand the stakes in the war. \u201cIf Ukraine falls, Putin will divide the world\u201d into Russia\u2019s friends and enemies, he said.<\/p> Zelensky has been the X-factor in this war, mobilizing his country and much of the world to resist Russian aggression. I wish members of Congress who balk at aiding Ukraine could have listened to the Ukrainian leader talk about the price that Ukraine has paid for its defiance \u2014 and the risks ahead for the United States if it doesn\u2019t stand with its friends.<\/p><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Zelensky: \u2018We Are Trying to Find Some Way Not to Retreat\u2019 David Ignatius\/The Washington Post Ukainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. (photo: Ronaldo Schemidt\/Getty Images) go to original\u00a0\/\u00a0print version\u00a0\/\u00a0subscribe\u00a0\/\u00a0donate 30 march 24 President Volodymyr Zelensky delivered a stark message to Congress in an interview on Thursday as Russian missiles were pounding southern… Continue reading → <\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32574"}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=32574"}],"version-history":[{"count":1,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32574\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":32575,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32574\/revisions\/32575"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=32574"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=32574"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/occupysf.net\/index.php\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=32574"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}